IDE support.

The fact that the authors of Fantom do not favor IDE support was clearly stated.

I would like to encourage a change of mind for their own good and Fantom's.

The reasons for using a smart IDE are numerous. It is more than surprising to me how many capable developers choose to sit behind a plain text editor even if than have nothing but gain otherwise. If a smart IDE (i.e. IntelliJ IDEA is one) can aid with a better API/code understanding, faster code navigation, quick resource management, ease of inter-team communication, etc., etc., etc., etc. why, Oh why not be a Fan of a smart IDE? And if you are indifferent at a personal level, you, as a key promoter of Fantom, you must enthusiastically support it - for the greater good.

There are at least three big hurdles that a new good language must overcome: documentation, IDE support and libraries. Many recognize Fantom's good documentation. Let's not stop there.

Smart IDE's are not for dummies, lemmings or the lazy. In today's environment, smart IDE support is one of the best marketing tool a language can have.

I glanced over Fantom a few weeks ago. Last weekend I found some time to install it and explore it. I love it. This is the reason I take time for this post. I want Fantom to succeed.

I spent more than six hours to figure out the environment. I tried IDEA, Netbeans, Eclipse, Flux and ended up with E - TextEditor. Everything errored on me. All I got in the end was syntax highlighting and time to figure out how to compile a pod from E. Not good. I need squiggly things to tell me that I have an error. I need to press CTRL-Q to peek into documentation. I need to click one button and run the MyFan.main() miracle. I don't need all this to dumb me down. I need all this not to keep me away. I need all this as four wonderful small kids await for me to give up the computer on Friday night - and their mother too.

If Fantom is to succeed it needs to make it even easier for guys to get hooked. Yeah, dress up nice, smell good, put up a smile and chin up. C'mmon, if you know that's what it takes, IN ADDITION to inner beauty, then do it!

I want Fantom to succeed. It's elegant and it has what it takes. Gimme a break, is it not obvious why PHP succeeded? It has convenience written all over it, forget the inner beauty.

Fantom can be what Scala never will. There is a reason why seemingly smart girls end up bitter islands while blonds have all the fun.

So let me ask: Is it worth pouring so much passion into something and risk missing the mark for such small and overlooked reason? Fantom does not even need an IDE - just a plugin for a free, great IDE such as IDEA.

Let people say about Fantom: Elegant syntax, intuitive API, great documentation, excellent IDE support and approachable to mere mortals. The kiss of success.

Can we get some smart fingers do the typing needed for the next level?

Fantom needs excellent IDE support.

Really? I thought Eclipse Xored was rather awesome. I use it regularly when coding in Fantom/Java. I agree IDEA is better IDE overall but its level of support for Fantom is rather lacking.

Also what exactly do you expect brian and andy to do?

florin,

As a confirmed Eclipse'r at home and at work, I couldn't agree more. So I would say, "Here's your chance! Jump into the F4 Eclipse Plugin process and make it fabulous! Or the Netbeans one! Help out!" EXCEPT that you write:

I need all this as four wonderful small kids await for me to give up the computer on Friday night - and their mother too.

Learn From My Fail -- drop all the hobbies you have that don't include your kids directly. Believe me, they will be gone before you know it. You can always come back to hacking, but you'll be astounded how fast those ~20 years fly by. Don't miss them now.

Yeah, If you want to help with the Netbeans plugin, let me know, haven't had time in a while.

You should try making a plugin, I think juts like me you will realize the complexity behind features like completion etc..., very time consuming to implement, especially for a "suggary" language like Fantom.

Anyway, I know at least the Eclipse plugin and my Netbeans plugin should work(work for others), so if they don't, let us know what doesn't work, so we can fix it.

Please don't mistake my non-use of IDEs as lack of interest in IDEs. First class tooling support is critical for a programming language, especially for a language like Fantom targeted at existing Java developers. I think there general agreement within the Fantom community that IDEs are absolutely needed for a successful ecosystem.

There has been significant work on the both the Eclipse and NetBeans IDE. I am sure there is still much work to do, but they both seem like great starts given a fledging language like Fantom. It has only really been within the last six months that things have settled down towards a beta release.

The problem is that proper implementation of an IDE is a huge task. Certainly neither Andy nor I have the time to do it and maintain the core and build our company SkyFoundry (which essentially funds Fantom development). Add to that, every developer has their own IDE hang-ups, so Fantom really needs support for all the majors: Eclipse, NetBeans, IDEA, etc.

So all we can do at this point is nurture the community to help put these pieces into place. Like most open source projects most of this effort is done by generous people during their free time.

Congratulations to Brian and Andy for their hard work. There is no doubt that they are committed to the success of the Fantom language. What I encourage, is more if this success.

No one lights a lamp to hide it under a jar. It seems to me that Fantom has been ready for greater adoption already.

When Fantom has excellent IDE support and runs in a servlet container, has a decent web framework and a book on it, it will get larger adoption - quickly. Hopefully. Everyone will benefit.

Nurture. That's right. A formal, visible initiative is required with clear objectives supervised by the authors or SkyFoundry. Authoritative. The community needs to be encouraged to contribute much like with many open source projects. In this way, effort will not be disparate, duplicated or discouraging for a one (good) man effort. Things will flow from here naturally. Individuals and eventually corporations will join the effort.

Initiative, guidance and then nurture are required.

Have you tried the Eclipse plugin? Its really pretty good. I use it whenever coding Fantom.